I recently read from someone who is not an advocate for the theology of 5 Point Calvinism, that they don't ultimately think that this is the real problem (at least for them personally); they seem to be happy to leave this movement (like The Gospel Coalition etc.) in America alone, as long as they keep to themselves and don't make pronouncements against other Christians. I found this sentiment to be intriguing, but also troubling. The troubling aspect with this is that the theology of 5 Point Calvinism is affecting millions of Christians in America, and having drastic consequences on their daily spirituality; and not good ones, I would surmise.
Or maybe at the end of the day nothing really matters, theology is imperfect (which it is), and thus it will all be sorted out in the end. Just as long as you love Jesus, that's all that really matters ... whatever that's supposed to mean. Forgive my cynicism!
If Calvinism -- all of it -- is not eradicated there will be no Christianity left in about 3 centuries. No point of Calvinism is any good, and so long as any of them survive, Christianity will be wiped out. If it takes a revamp of the canon (removing bits from Romans 4-9) to root out Calvinism completely, eventually Christianity is going to have to do it or cease to exist. And may God weigh his hand mightily upon those who resist this cleansing of the canon, and smite them. Amen.
ReplyDeleteAnon.,
DeleteI think your comment is hyper strange!
Brother (because, while you give no name, I can't imagine your words coming from a sister), scripture is not the problem, least of all Paul's address to the Romans. Nor is Calvinism the problem. And I say this as a Lutheran!
DeleteNo cleansing of the church in the world will "save" Christianity, if indeed it deserves to be saved. And no purported faults of the church will damn it, if indeed it deserves to be damned. Worse than this has gone on in Christian history, and before it. The existence of the people of God is solely predicated on the acts of God, and the faithfulness of the God who acts. Our faithfulness in response is strictly in the predicate of God's action. And our mistakes are still the responses of responsive and responsible creatures, who have been made so by God's action. Do not be so quick to the hubris of calling down, or even naming the place of, God's judgment.
Amen!
DeleteBobby, I have to separate the anti-Arminian emphasis of the five points from what the cultures of American Protestantism have done with them in their Christ-and-Culture madness. I'm not advocating leaving them be, but from over here outside the Calvinist fray, I can't help but notice that so many of the TGC screeds have far more than these points under them. If in fact they rest on TULIP at all! It seems perfectly plausible for me that even a Federal Calvinist could disagree with The Gospel Coalition in a theologically sound manner.
ReplyDeleteMatt, I totally agree with you! I know for a fact that many prominent Federal Calvinists disagree with both The Gospel Coalition and then John MacArthur's Shepherd Conference--i.e. the theology and then the cultural moves that fund both of these "movements."
DeleteBut then you agree that five-point Calvinism isn't the problem? I realize this post isn't the best place to comment on the next one, but the more I read of them, the less I understand how TULIP, or in a deeper sense Westminster and Dort, are at the root of the problem you're describing.
DeleteNo, I just agree that Federal Calvinists wouldn't agree with something like The Gospel Coalition.
DeleteIn what way do you not understand how TULIP or Dort/West. aren't at the root of the problem? I don't see TULIP as the ultimate problem, I see the "kind" of classical theism that funds the kinds of conditions that allowed for something like Dort as the primary problem. Or, I see the problem being with the "kind" of impersonal metaphysics that funds the kind of classical Calvinism that 5 pointism springs from. So please clarify ...
Ah. I get that better now that you make the distinction. But it does often seem like you use "five-point Calvinism" as the label that adequately describes the problem, when the problem you complain about is downstream of Dort quite a ways. Which reminds me that we do the same thing among Lutherans in our confessional discussions and labels.
DeleteI've been brewing a post on TULIP from my side of things for a little while, and I can see what you mean about the metaphysics of classical theism (spec. in Protestant Scholasticism), though I'm not sure that's the whole of the problem. But then, I'm not a Calvinist. :) I'll be glad for your corrections when I've got the post up.