tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934219918554432299.post2353215214611425132..comments2023-05-17T01:09:54.656-07:00Comments on The Evangelical Calvinist In Plain Language: I have never believed in 'Limited Atonement'Bobby Growhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06831009618873548948noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934219918554432299.post-22518733051648115782012-05-23T10:12:09.752-07:002012-05-23T10:12:09.752-07:00Stefan,
Thank you for posting this; I was glad to...Stefan,<br /><br />Thank you for posting this; I was glad to see your comment, so I wanted to respond either way (if it showed up or not ... thanks for reposting it) :-).Bobby Growhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06831009618873548948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934219918554432299.post-85759823173290553242012-05-23T10:11:09.879-07:002012-05-23T10:11:09.879-07:00Gojira,
Glad it clicked more then this time :-)!Gojira,<br /><br />Glad it clicked more then this time :-)!Bobby Growhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06831009618873548948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934219918554432299.post-33615569446385727552012-05-22T16:15:21.954-07:002012-05-22T16:15:21.954-07:00Bobby:
I was going to rewrite and repost my comme...Bobby:<br /><br />I was going to rewrite and repost my comment, then didn't get around to it. So here's the original comment, somewhat out of order:<br /><br />Bobby, you know that of course, "'All' doesn't <i>really</i> mean 'all.'" ...<i>Unless</i> it's an absolute that we're emphatic about, like, say, total depravity. Then "all" really does mean "all."<br /><br />I used adhere to the "L" in tulip (even though my own senior pastor does not), being persuaded that all five points must adhere together...but of all the five points of TULIP, "L" is by far the weakest and least...er...<i>biblical.</i><br /><br />The other four are arguable from Scripture, but the "L" can only be sustained it by logical deduction from the other points, and requires redefining texts to say something other than what they say. You can't take Romans 5:18-19, for example, and argue that one the one hand it teaches total depravity, while on the other it teaches limited atonement.<br /><br />The wondrous thing is that God is in no way any less sovereign if atonement is...er, limitedly unlimited...than if it is strictly limited. Salvation is still entirely of the Lord.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934219918554432299.post-5558949050810144982012-05-22T14:49:01.834-07:002012-05-22T14:49:01.834-07:00Thanks for the explination! I pretty much got the ...Thanks for the explination! I pretty much got the gist of it though. Yep it is a common theme you write about; I just never really thought about it in quite those same words. It makes sense though; plus it has teeth that bite. I like it. I like it a lot!Gojirahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12638911872713448018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934219918554432299.post-49546485482391477392012-05-22T13:16:27.701-07:002012-05-22T13:16:27.701-07:00Stefan,
Your comment still came through to my pho...Stefan,<br /><br />Your comment still came through to my phone via email. The vicarious humanity of Christ for us reframes the whole TULIP; such that it 'could' take on a new orientation in personalist terms if we see that framed and applied to Jesus' humanity for us. Thus undercutting the usual attendant dualist understanding that is present in the theology that gives rise to something like the TULIP. But I reject the TULIP, really, because of the Federal Theology behind it.Bobby Growhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06831009618873548948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934219918554432299.post-9700489401497968342012-05-22T13:14:28.947-07:002012-05-22T13:14:28.947-07:00@Gojira,
Then I'm wondering how long you actu...@Gojira,<br /><br />Then I'm wondering how long you actually have been reading me then ;-); since this topic is a frequent theme for me. This is what Evangelical Calvinism advocates: a 'Christ-conditioned Supralapsarian' view of election; wherein Christ elects our humanity, and in so doing takes our reprobation for himself, and in his vicarious humanity he puts human reprobation to death, in his humanity for us, and then in this reversal, in the resurrection gives us his elect status as the firstborn from the dead in his recreated resurrected humanity (cf. II Cor 8.9; Rom 6; Col 1:15ff etc).Bobby Growhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06831009618873548948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934219918554432299.post-3953817571912022732012-05-22T13:11:00.875-07:002012-05-22T13:11:00.875-07:00@Mark,
I agree :-).@Mark,<br /><br />I agree :-).Bobby Growhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06831009618873548948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934219918554432299.post-74947528020852588112012-05-22T12:57:48.554-07:002012-05-22T12:57:48.554-07:00"...that Christ is both elect and reprobate i..."...that Christ is both elect and reprobate in Himself for us...."<br /><br />Hmmmmm....never looked at it like that. Food for thought. Good postGojirahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12638911872713448018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934219918554432299.post-75120046312727654102012-05-22T12:03:52.807-07:002012-05-22T12:03:52.807-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934219918554432299.post-77917245298928677322012-05-21T13:58:17.225-07:002012-05-21T13:58:17.225-07:00Bobby, this resonates pretty significantly with ho...Bobby, this resonates pretty significantly with how I've reacted to presentations of TULIP-style Calvinism. I've always felt that, for proponents of that system, it's really not meaningful to say that Christ died for "all." In which case the numerous texts which say something to that effect must be minimized, twisted, or basically ignored. In terms of who salvation is for, there are "all texts" and "some texts." You inevitably end up interpreting one set through the other; but you cannot be faithful to Scripture while ignoring one whole set. Seems to me that TULIP Calvinism doesn't have much of anything significant to say about the "all" statements.<br /><br />God Bless.Mark Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00891145791552691425noreply@blogger.com